Q: Ho w does one deal with practical life situations while trying to be simple and experience space? 　問：我們怎樣在力求單純和體驗空間的同時，處理實際生活中的情況？ A: You see, in order to experience open space one also must experience the solidity of earth, o f form. They are interdependent. Often we romanticize open space and then we fall into traps. As long as we do not romanticize open space as a wondrous place but rather relate that space to earth, then we will avoid these traps. Space cannot be experienced without the outline o f the earth to define it. 　答：你要知道，為了體驗敞開的空間，你還必須體驗世間或形色的堅實，它們是相互依存的。我們常對敞開的空間有不切實際的想法，以致落入陷阱。只要我們不把敞開的空間妄想為奇妙之處，而把它跟世間連在一起，我們即可避開這些陷阱。若無世間的輪廓標出空間，我們便無法體驗到空間的存在。I f we are going to paint a picture o f open space, we must express it in terms o f the earth's horizon. So it is necessary to bring oneself back to the problems o f everyday life, the kitchen-sink problems. That is why the simplicity and precision o f everyday activities is very important. I f you perceive open space, you should bring yourself back to your old, familiar, claustrophobic life situations and look into them more closely, examine them, absorb yourself into them, until the absurdity o f their solidity strikes you and you can see their spaciousness as well. 　如果我們想為敞開的空間畫一幅畫，我們必須借助於地平線才能把它表現出來。因此，我們必須回到日常生活的問題，回到最平凡實在的問題。這就是為什麼要說日常行為的單純和精確非常重要。你若得見敞開的空間，就應回到原來你所熟悉的那些讓你悶得可怕的生活狀況裡，更仔細深入地觀察它們，直到你發覺其堅實無稽，直到你見其本性是空。  Q: Ho w does one relate to the impatience that accompanies the waiting period? A: Impatience means that you do not have a complete understanding of the process. I f you see the completeness o f each action, then you wil l not be impatient any more. Q: I experience calm thoughts as well as neurotic thoughts. Are these calm thoughts something I should cultivate? 　問：我們怎樣應付等待期間的那種不耐？ 　　答：不耐即表示你不瞭解整個的過程。你若看清每一動作的全部，便不會感到不耐。 　　問：我有不安之念，也有平靜之念。這些平靜之念是不是我應該培養的？  A: In the practice o f meditation all thoughts are the same: pious thoughts, very beautiful thoughts, religious thoughts, calm thoughts— they are all still thoughts. You do not try to cultivate calm thoughts and suppress so-called neurotic thoughts. This is an interesting point. When we speak o f treading the path o f the dharma, which is the fourth noble truth, it does not mean that we become religious, calm, good. 答：在禪修中，一切念都一樣：虔誠之念、美好之念、信教之念、平靜之念——這些全是不動之念。你不要試圖培養那平靜之念，同時又抑制所謂不安之念；這是有趣的一點。當我們談正法之道時，也就是談列為第四諦的道諦時，並不是說我們變得信教，平靜、善良了。Trying to be calm, trying to be good, is also an aspect o f striving, o f neuroticism. Religiously inclined thoughts are the watcher, the judge, and confused, worldly thoughts are the actor, the doer. For instance i f you meditate, you might experience ordinary domestic thoughts and at the same time there is a watcher saying, "You shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that, but you should come back to meditation." These pious thoughts are still thoughts and should not be cultivated.力圖平靜，力圖善良，也是奮鬥的一面，或不安的一面。信教之念是監視者或裁判，而迷惑的世俗之念則是演員或行為者。例如，你在修禪時，可能念及庸俗的家事，這時便會有位監視者說：「你不該如此，你不該那樣；你應回到禪修。」這些虔誠之念是不動之念，不該培養。 Q: Could you say something more about using pauses as well as speech to communicate, and how this process relates to ego? A: Usually, when we communicate with another person, we are driven by a kind of neurotic speed. We must begin to allow some spontaneity to penetrate this speed so that we do not push ourselves onto the person with whom we are communicating, do not impose ourselves, do not overload the other person. In particular, when we speak of something in which we are very interested, we do not just talk but we leap at the other person. Spontaneity is always there, but it is clouded over by thought. Whenever there is a gap in the cloudbank of thought, it shines through. Reach out and acknowledge that first openness and through that opening the basic intelligence will begin to function. 　問：可否請您多談一點交談時的講、停並用，以及這種作法跟「我」有何關係？ 　　答：當我們跟別人交談時，我們常被一種神經質的速度所驅策。我們必須開始讓自然透入這種速度，以免向對方強行推銷自己，使得對方受不了。特別是，當我們談自己非常感興趣的事情時，我們不只是向對方講，簡直是往對方身上撲。自然始終在那兒，只是被如雲之念所遮，念雲一有了裂縫，自然之日光就射出來了。我們要伸出手去接納這個初現的空隙；有此空隙，根本智便能開始運作。  Q: Many people are aware of the truth of suffering but do not move on to the second step, awareness of the origin of suffering. W h y is that? A: I think that it is largely a matter of paranoia. We want to escape. We want to run away from pain rather than regard it as a source of inspiration. We feel the suffering to be bad enough, so why investigate it further? Some people who suffer a great deal and realize that they cannot escape their suffering really begin to understand it.  But most people are too busy attempting to rid themselves of irritation, too busy seeking distractions from themselves to look into the material they already have. 問：很多人都知道苦諦，但不追究苦因。這是什麼緣故？ 　　答：我想，關鍵在於偏執狂。我們想逃，我們想逃離痛苦，而不把痛苦看作靈感之源。我們覺得苦已夠糟，何必追究其因？有些受大苦的人，因自知無法離苦，而真正開始瞭解苦，但大多數的人，都太忙著擺脫煩惱，太忙著尋求娛樂，以致沒時間察看自己早就有了的東西。 It is too embarrassing to look into it. This is the attitude of paranoia: if you look too closely, you will find something fearful. But in order to be a completely inspired person like Gautama Buddha, you have to be very open-minded and intelligent, an inquisitive person. You have to want to explore everything, even though it may be ugly, painful, or repulsive. This kind of scientific-mindedness is very important. 　 他們覺得察看會令他們難堪，這是偏執狂的心態；你若看得太仔細，便會發現可怕的事物。但是若要像釋迦牟尼佛那樣成為全覺之人，你必須虛心、明智、好問。你必須願意探究每一事物，即使是醜惡、痛苦或討厭的事物。這種合乎科學的心態，非常重要。  Q: In the awakened mind, where does motivation come in? A: Inspired motivation comes from something beyond thought, something beyond the conceptualized ideas of "good" and "bad," "desirable" and "undesirable." Beyond thought there is a kind of intelligence which is our basic nature, our background, an intuitive primordial intelligence, a feeling of space, a creative open way of dealing with situations. This kind of motivation is not intellectual: it is intuitive, precise. 　問：覺心之中，何來動機？ 　　答：覺悟的動機，來自念外，來自概念化的「善」與「惡」、「可欲」與「不可欲」之外。有一種超念之智，是我們的本性和背景；它是直覺的根本智，是一種空間感，是一種具有創意、敞開來處理情況的方式。這種動機不屬理智，它是直覺的、精確的。 Q: Can one work on one's mind by controlling the physical situation? A: Whatever you do with the situations of life, there is always a communication going on between mind and matter. But one cannot rely upon the gadgetry of matter alone; you cannot get around the problems of mind by manipulating things external to it. 　問：我們能藉控制物質的情況來修心嗎？ 　　答：無論你如何處理生活情況，總是有著心物之間的溝通，可是你不能僅靠物質上的配備或藉著操縱心外之物避開心的問題。We see so many people in our society trying to do just this. People put on robes and renounce the world and lead very austere lives, renouncing every common habit of human behavior. But eventually they will have to deal wit h their confused minds. Confusion originates in mind, so one has to start directly with mind rather than attempting to go around it. I f one is trying to get around mental confusion by manipulating the physical world, then I do not think it will work. 我們看到社會上有很多人就是想要這麼做；他們穿上僧服出家，過著非常刻苦的生活，把人類共有的習慣行為都拋棄了，但是最後他們還是必須對付他們的迷惑之心。迷惑起於心，所以我們必須直接從心下手，不要企圖繞過心去。如果你想用操縱自然界的方式避開心中之惑，我看是行不通。  In the dance of life, matter reflects mind and mind reacts to matter. There is a continual exchange. I f one is holding a lump of rock, one should feel the solid earth qualities of rock. One has to learn how to communicate wit h the rocklike quality. I f one is holding a flower, then the particular shape and color of the petals connect to our psychology as well. We cannot completely ignore the symbolism of the external world. 　　在人生之舞裡，物反映心，心反應物，二者之間不斷來往。如果你拿著一塊石頭，你會感到石頭的堅實性，你必須學習如何跟石性溝通；如果你拿著一朵花，花瓣的形色也會跟我們的心理發生關係。我們不能完全無視外界象徵性的意義。 However, in the beginning as we attempt to confront our own neuroses, we must be very direct and not think that we can evade the problems of mind by playing wit h matter. For instance, i f a person is psychologically unbalanced, completely confused, like the monkey we have been discussing, and i f we dress hi m in the robes of the Buddha or sit hi m in a meditation posture, his mind will still spin around in the same way. But later on, when he learns to settle himself down and becomes a simple monkey, then there might be a certain effectiveness in taking hi m into a quiet place or retreat. 　　不過，在開始試圖面對我們的神經質時，我們必須採取非常直接的作法，不要以為玩弄物質便可逃避內心的問題。譬如，一個像我們講過的猴子那樣心理不平衡、充滿了迷惑的人，即使我們給它披上佛陀的袈裟，或教它擺出坐禪的姿勢，它的心還是會胡思亂想。但過些時候，當它學會了定心，它就變成單純的猴子，那時再把它送到靜處去閉關修行，可能會有某種程度的效果。  Q: When I see the ugliness in myself, I do not know how to accept it. I try to avoid it or change it rather than accept it. A: Well, you do not have to hide it. You do not have to change it. Investigate it further. When you see the ugliness in yourself, that is just a preconception. You see it as ugliness, which is still connected wit h the ideas of "good" and "bad." But you have to transcend even those words, "good" and "bad." You have to get beyond words and conceptualized ideas and just get into what you are, deeper and deeper. The first glimpse is not quite enough: you have to examine the details without judging, without using words and concepts. Opening to oneself fully is opening to the world. 問：當我看到自己心中的醜惡時，我不知道怎麼接受；我想躲避它或改變它，而不想接受它。 　　答：你不必把它藏起來。你不必改變它。你要進一步追究它。你在自己心中看到醜惡，那只是你的偏見。你把它看成醜惡，這就表示你尚未擺脫「善」、「惡」對立的觀念。不用說觀念，即使是「善」、「惡」二字都是你必須超越的。你必須超越語言、文字和概念，直觀自己內心的實相，步步深入。初見的那一瞥，不夠；你必須看得仔細，不加判斷，不用語言、文字和概念，對自己完全敞開，即是對整個世間敞開。